A Roundtable Discussion With 8 Female Animators (Animage, June 1990): A DeepL “Translation”
The Flowers of the Anime World Living in the Age of Women
A round-table discussion with 8 female animators.
In recent years, there has been a remarkable increase in the number of female animators, such as "Madonna Senator" and "Working Girl”. So, we gathered all the shining female animators in the animation world and asked them to talk freely about their workplaces, jobs, marriage, and so on.
Masako Shinohara: She is a veteran animator who has participated in almost all of Hayao Miyazaki's works, including Future Boy Conan, The Castle of Cagliostro, My Neighbour Totoro and Kiki’s Delivery Service. Born on April 3, 1942.
Sachiko Kamimura: As a character designer for City Hunter and an animation director for Venus Wars her ability to draw both mechanical action and characters is guaranteed. This year's theme is "Six months work, six months rest!”
Yukari Kobayashi: She is the proud animation director of Magic Bus. Born on February 6, 1959. Graduated from the commercial design department of a women's art junior college. She is a master of all kinds of animations such as Tobira o Akete, Grey, Urusei Yatsura 5: The Final Chapter and CIPHER: The Video.
Kazuko Tadano: Recent works include Mashin Hero Wataru, Mr. Ajikko, Idol Densetsu Eriko and Idol Angel Welcome Yoko. She is the energetic animator of Studio Live. Born on March 15, 1959.
Yumiko Horazawa: She is an animator who worked as a character designer for Pastel Yumi and as an animation director for Appleseed. Recently, she has been active as a manga artist, including the serial D in this magazine. Born on November 19, 1964.
New boys are unlikely to be attracted to a company where women are comfortable.
Animage: Today, we have gathered eight animators, all women, who are active in the animation industry. I know that some of you have never met each other before, so please start by introducing yourselves.
Shinohara: My name is Masako Shinohara. I've been working in this world for a very long time, and I'm like a trilobite, so to speak (laughs). I'm currently doing training at Studio Ghibli.
Kamimura: I'm Sachiko Kamimura. I'm doing the animation for City Hunter. Last year, I worked as an animation director for Venus Wars, but I was exhausted (laughs). I couldn't do it at all.
Nakajima: My name is Atsuko Nakajima. I'm currently working on Ranma 1/2 and before that I was the animation director of F. I mainly work for Studio DEEN.
Tadano: I'm Kazuko Tadano from Studio Live, nice to meet you. I'm an animator on Idol Angel Welcome Yoko. I was also involved in the animation of Dancougar, but due to my schedule, I haven't touched it much since then (laughs).
Okuda: My name is Mitsuri Okuda. The only thing I've done recently is Shurato, and I haven't done any animator-like work lately (laughs). But I'm hoping to get back to it this summer.
Kobayashi: I'm Yukari Kobayashi from Magic Bus. Recently, I've been working on two films, one for the T.M. Network called Carol, and the other for a concert, and the other, an original by our president (Satoshi Dezaki) called Onimaru, which is a rather extreme period piece. I'm just now getting some free time.
Himeno: I'm Michi Himeno. Thank you for your interest. Part 2 of Fuuma no Kojiro is almost ready to be drawn.
Horazawa: My name is Yumiko Horazawa. I'm not sure if it's okay for me to come here since I'm mainly working on manga these days (laughs). The last job I did was as an animation director was Appleseed. If there is an opportunity, I would like to participate in anime again.
Animage: Today, I'd like to ask you to freely discuss various topics related to working in the anime industry from a woman's unique perspective. First of all, I'd like to ask you whether the number of female animators is increasing or decreasing compared to the past.
Shinohara: When I first became an animator, the workplace was all men. Compared to that, the number of women in the workplace is much higher now. However, in the past few years, I think the number of new girls has been decreasing. The last time I was at Ghibli, there were only two girls for every one boy who came in for training.
Kamimura: I've been hearing a lot lately about the lack of new girls coming in.
Tadano: When I first joined Live, there were about 14 girls, and nearly 10 newcomers alone. We all got together, and because we were having so much fun, we were making a lot of noise, and every time we did, the president would call me in and get angry (laughs).
Kobayashi: We used to have more girls, but all the girls quit for a while, and the new recruits are all boys.
Shinohara: If the workplace has a lot of men and a little bit of women, it will become a male-dominated workplace where people will say things that are difficult for women to hear, and if there are a lot of women, it will become a place where men feel uncomfortable. The ratio of men to women is about 7 to 3, which is pretty good, and when it's 5 to 5, the women seem to be stronger (laughs).
Kamimura: I think the ratio of men to women in the industry is about 8 to 2 now.
Shinohara: Maybe there will be more men in the future.
Okuda: Until about five years ago, when there was an animation boom, there seemed to be a lot of female newcomers.
Shinohara: Back then, I had a lot of aspirations to become an animator, but in reality, I could only get 40,000 or 50,000, and I lived a miserable life.
Himeno: I was tricked by the horizontal letters (laughs).
Shinohara: But now, the rumor that the life of an animator is not easy has spread to ordinary people, and only people who really want to do animation come to... Even so, there are still a lot of letters of admiration.
Tadano: But we had more women than men as new employees this year. We had two men and about four women. One of the men quit within a week.
Okuda: I heard a rumor that Toyoo Ashida doesn't take men (laughs).
Tadano: What?! That's not true (laughs). In our case, it has happened before, hasn't it? There was a pattern of men quitting after a week or half a month. But I've never had a woman quit.
Shinohara: It's probably a percentage of the number of people, and there's a comfortable fluffiness about women. So, if you want to take a man, you can take several men at once.
Kamimura: Are you going to make him one of us?
Shinohara: If you take all the men in the same period, they will become the core.
Kobayashi: It would be better for them to compete with each other and develop their skills.
Shinohara: But, just as there are houses where cats always come home (laughs), there may be companies where girls always come home.
In an age when women are also drawing action, the deciding factor is individual differences rather than gender differences.
Animage: Are there any differences in the characteristics of female and male animators, or any strengths or weaknesses?
Kamimura: I don't think there's anything special about it. It may have been said in the past that only women can portray female characters, or that men are better at drawing mecha and action scenes, but these days it seems to have become irrelevant.
Shinohara: It just so happens that many women have not been able to draw such cuts in the past, but I think that will change in the future. In fact, I think it's not a gender difference at all, but an individual difference.
Kamimura: There are men who can do housework, and there are women who can't (laughs).
Kobayashi: Isn't it a bit of a reversal now? (laughs) Men are more sober. Men are more meticulous. They draw very detailed things, right?
Tadano: There are girls who draw pictures that make you wonder, "Was this drawn by a woman?” (laughs).
Okuda: Yeah. She's the kind of person who draw animation that make you wonder if she does this kind of thing all the time (laughs).
Shinohara: That kind of everyday life comes out in the drawings. And also the essence of the person. Even if a person looks quite masculine, you can see that he has a lot of details inside.
Okuda: That's why the things I usually do without thinking come out when I'm thinking about putting on a play and drawing.
Kamimura: The way you hold a glass is the way you hold it.
Nakajima: Also, the way you hold your chopsticks. I can't draw unless I can hold my chopsticks properly (laughs).
Shinohara: However, it is also true that a really good artist can draw in a way that looks good even if he can't hold the chopsticks by himself.
Himeno: Maybe the good ones look closely at such details (laughs).
Okuda: Yeah, you're observant.
Shinohara: So, even though I'm a girl, I know a lot about guys.
Himeno: There are guys who draw girls with cute gestures (laughs).
Animage: If you are a female animator and you want to draw a male character, can you do it just by observing everyday life?
Himeno: I also refer to action movies. But even in that case, I think it's important to be observant. Whether what you see comes out through your arms or not.
Okuda: Also, even when we draw girls, we are sometimes required to do things that we normally wouldn't do, such as holding a cane with both hands. I think it's all about what kind of character you want to portray, regardless of gender.
Shinohara: When you draw men in manga, do you also observe them?
Horazawa: Even if I were to observe, it's not like there are a lot of ideal people wandering around (laughs).
Kamimura: No, it's not.
Himeno: They're all hunched over and unhealthy-looking (laughs).
Horazawa: When I see a movie, I think, "This person is really nice”. After that, I make up my own image of what I think would be ideal. There are some people who have problems with their faces but have beautiful hands.
Kamimura: I know, I know (laughs). I'll just get his line here, or something like that.
Okuda: I don't need anything else (laughs).
Himeno: I've been combining and synthesizing them in my head.
Kobayashi: I sometimes refer to pamphlets or "Men's Non-no”, and other publications like that.
Kamimura: I'm "Roadshow".
Kobayashi: And the rock magazine "Music Life". In the end, magazines that are full of people who like to show off their work are more likely to have good poses.
Kamimura: But in animation, you don't draw characters unconditionally, do you? I'm usually asked to draw the characters in a selling line this time.
Shinohara: Do they ask you to play in the sales line?
Kamimura: Yeah. Like, "This time, we're aiming for the big time"? (laughs)
Shinohara: Oh, yeah. I'm not in that world, so I've never heard of it (laughs).
Animage: What do you think about marriage? Please tell us about your views on marriage.
Shinohara: In Ghibli, it's obvious that more and more women are not getting married. I think that if you want to get married, you have to be around twenty-two or twenty-three years old. After the age of twenty-four, you become very discerning and selective. At that time, work also becomes more interesting.
Okuda: That's right. When I was just starting out as an animator, if I had a boyfriend and there was talk of marriage, I could easily say, "I'm not going to make much money if I keep doing this, so I might as well become a housewife. But now that I'm twenty-five or twenty-six, I feel like, why should I bother getting married when I'm already able to feed myself (laughs).
Shinohara: That's why I always tell the girls around me at work that they should get married by the age of twenty-three. If you're going to go, go early, because you'll look cute and wrinkle-free in photos if you're around twenty-three (laughs).
Kamimura: That's one of today's themes. If you want to get married, you have to do it by the age of twenty-three (laughs).
Okuda: How many of you are married?
Kamimura: Me, Tadano-san, Nakajima-san, and Horazawa-san... we’re exactly halfway there.
Shinohara: But being married and a housewife must be quite a challenge. People who are good at taking care of their wives are probably smart and good at their jobs.
Kobayashi: I guess being a housewife requires a lot of patience.
Okuda: But I'd like to try something like that, too (laughs). It's like each house is its own society. I'd love to be able to manage it all by myself. I wonder if I can last half a year (laughs).
Kamimura: I'm sure you'd be happy with six months (laughs). It's hard to go on forever.
Animage: For those of you who are married, are you able to balance your work as an animator with being a housewife?
Kamimura: I haven't (laughs).
Nakajima: I haven't done much (laughs).
Kobayashi: One thing I would like to say from the standpoint of someone who is not married, is that I believe that the rhythm of a man's life becomes easier after marriage. But for women, I think it will be disrupted. They have to take care of the house, and they have to take care of things at work.
Okuda: However, if you're working from home, it's probably a good idea to go freelance. I can do things in my spare time. If I go to the office, I have to make time for my husband, which is fine if he's in the same business as me, but if he's a normal office worker, I have to quickly finish up at home, go to the office myself, and then I have to come home and prepare a meal before he comes home (laughs).
Shinohara: It's still fine when it's just your husband. It will be more difficult when you have children.
Animage: Do any of you have children?
Everyone: Shhhhh!
Kobayashi: The wife of our president, Setsuko Shibuichi, still had a child in nursery school when I joined the company. I've also seen them get called out because they had a fever or something and had to go home, so I thought it was great to raise children while working.
Okuda: Even among my peers, even after they got married and continued working, when they had children, they all took a break for about two years. They had to stay at home with their children. Then, when their children started preschool, they started working part-time again, little by little.
Kobayashi: We've talked about how it would be nice to have a daycare center in the studio someday (laughs).
Shinohara: So, if both of you are working as animators, it would be good if you could stay home and watch your children when your wife happens to have a very busy job.
Kamimura: I think that might happen eventually. I've given birth to a child, so I think it's okay for you to at least raise it (laughs). It's hard to do both, isn't it?
- “Madonna Senator” is a Japanese term for a female legislator who is also good-looking: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/マドンナ議員
- “Working Girl” most likely is referring to people similar to the characters from the American film of the same name released in 1988: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Girl
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